You may be seated. -Hello, Your Honor.
-Hello. This is the case of
Williams/Mayberry v. Winn.Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. [audience] Good day. Mr. Williams, from
the moment you saw Quinisha Mayberry you believed that she
is your biological daughter. Even though
the defendant claimed you are not. You hope today’s
results prove what you have known
for 35 years, -is that correct?
-Yes, Your Honor. Miss Winn, you claim
that you have never given the plaintiff
a reason to believe he is your daughter
Quinisha’s father. In fact, you say you have always known
who her dad is, -is that correct?
-Yes, Your Honor. So, Mr. Williams,
I’ll start with you. Tell me about
the moment you realized Quinisha was your daughter. Well, it was
the first time
I saw her. You know… She just…
She looked like me, fair skin, and I just knew
she was my daughter. And when was this, sir? When she, um…
About a week
after she was born. -Oh, right after
she was born.
-Yes. [Judge Lake]
You looked at her
and you said, -“This is my daughter.”
-Yep. Because you felt like
she looked like you.Well, she’s fair skin,
I was fair skin,her mom is dark
and the other guy,
he’s darker.-That’s not
a lot of criteria.
-[Williams] No. -[audience laughs]
-But I just felt… -I felt it in my heart.
-And most babies are very pale when they’re born. Well, I just
felt it in my heart
that she was mine. -So, you really did.
You had that feeling…
-Yes. -…like, this is
-Yes. -…and you’ve held on
to that feeling.
-Yes. And, so, for 35 years
you’ve been saying, -“This is my daughter.”
-Yes. But, Miss Winn,
you say he’s not
her biological father. He’s not her father,
Your Honor. [audience laughs] Color don’t
mean nothing. No. ‘Cause he light skin
and she light skin. The other guy
is dark skin,
I’m dark skin. That don’t prove
that he’s her father. It sure doesn’t. I know
who’s her father. -Well, it’s different
when you got–
-It’s not Stanley, -Your Honor.
-Well, he seems
pretty certain that it is and I would like
to hear his testimony. I want to start
with the nature
of your relationship. Can you take
me back, Mr. Williams, and explain
to the court
what the nature of your relationship
was with Miss Winn? Well, we was, um,
just close friends
for a while. They used to live
next door to me and she used to come by
where I used to work at probably
30, 40 times a day just walking
in front of the door -to get my attention.
-[laughs] And so, you know,
we end up… You know,
we did mess around, but it was never
a relationship. So, how long did
this sexual relationship last? I don’t remember.
About four or five months. -Something like that.
-All right. So, Miss Winn,
how do you remember your relationship
with Mr. Williams? Can you take me back? I don’t. I don’t remember. -[audience exclaiming]
-[Williams chuckling] -Wait, what?
-I don’t remember at all. If he said it happened,
it must have happened. -I don’t remember.
-[woman whistles lightly] [audience chuckles] So, it is your testimony, you do not remember having sexual relations
with Mr. Williams? No, Your Honor.
I do not remember. -[laughs]
-[audience laughing] Do you remember
walking past the store and trying
to get his attention? -Yes.
-So, you remember, both of y’all
were young and you… He was working
in the store and you remember walking past
trying to get his attention. Yes, I walked past
his shoe shop probably about
ten times a day. -That’s what he said.
-About… about 50 times a day. -Maybe more.
-And, so, was he– It still don’t prove
he’s the father. -No, it doesn’t.
-[audience chuckles] -She about
to take my job, Jerome.
-[audience laughs] -Sorry. [laughs]
-[Williams chuckles] -She say that
don’t prove nothing.
-[audience applauds lightly] No, walking past the store
doesn’t prove he’s the father. You correct. I’m trying to get to,
“Do you remember him asking you on a date
or meetin’ up
with him later?” You Honor, I don’t
remember none of it. [audience gasps] And if Stanley,
he feel that he was the father, he could have been…
Did this test. He used to come get her,
take her over to his house.
He could have did it then. -Well, if you didn’t think I–
-He want to wait 35 years
to do this now. If you didn’t think I was,
why would you let me
take your baby? -I didn’t have a pro…
I didn’t have a problem.
-[audience chattering] I didn’t have
Your Honor. I didn’t have a problem
him coming over,
taking my daughter, ’cause like he say,
we grew up together. He knew my family,
I knew his family. I didn’t have a problem
him taking my daughter -to his house.
So, wait a minute, I mean, even though
you grow up with somebody
and you know ’em, that doesn’t mean
it’s, like, “Come on over and get my daughter
and just take her.” When would you
take Quinisha, Mr. Williams? Well, the first time
I took her home to my momand I asked my mom, I said,
“Does she look like me?”And my mom said,
“Yeah, that’s your baby, Stan.”How old was she? Quinisha had to be,
um, months old. -She was months old.
I used to go get her a lot.
-And you came and picked up -a newborn baby.
-Yes. She was no newborn. Yes. -He got no pictures
with her being a newborn.
-Not with newborns, but I had…
I used to go
get her all the time. There was once
I came and got her for, like, my niece’s
and nephew’s birthday party. I used to go get her
so she could come
and play with the other kids and I would keep her
the duration of the party. How long did that last?
How often was that? Well, it wasn’t often
because I lost contact
with them for a long time, but I was still
looking for her. And you’ve submitted
to the court the one photo
you’ve held on to -over these years.
-Yep. [Judge Lake]So, this
is photo of you-and Quinisha.
-[Williams]Yes.You took that together
many, many years ago. She has to be, what,
three or four? I don’t remember
how old she was, -but, yeah,
that’s one of the photos.
-[woman] Yeah. Well, Your Honor,
he should have tested
when he had her… When she was over
his house like that. When she was three years old,
he should have tested her. Why wait 35 years
to do this? And I don’t understand
why Stanley brought me
all the way here -to get a DNA test.
-For answers. This is something
we was already talking about doing anyway. We just had
a conversation probably last year
that we was gonna go
and get a DNA test. And where does she
look like him at? -[audience laughs]
-[Williams laughs] [audience applauds] -I don’t see it.
-[Williams] Okay. but I was still
looking for her. [Judge Lake]
he claims you lost contact
at some point. Who did you
grow up thinking
was your father? Um, the man that signed
my birth certificate. Like, um, I met him,
like, twice. I don’t feel like
we have a connection. I… I definitely don’t
look like him. I really don’t feel
like that’s my father. -Oh, you had
no connection with him…
-No. -…and you’ve only seen him,
like, two times.
-Yep, -and that was
when I was, like, 18, so…
-[audience gasps] Yeah, I’ve been mom
and dad to her, and I’m still
mom and dad. You’ve been a mom and probably
a really great mom, but she wouldn’t
be standing here if you were the dad
and could really
fill those shoes. You aren’t,
and that’s why she wants to know
who her father is, and that’s no slight to you. I mean,
you may have been
an incredible mother, but she still has that desire to know
who her father is. That’s why we’re here
to support her, and Mr. Williams and you to try to figure out
what in the world is going on. I mean,
I don’t think
I’ve ever heard a… A mom say,
“I don’t even
remember this per… -Sleeping with the person…”
-[Williams chuckles] …and the dad
be so sure that he is
the biological father. This is a first. -[Winn] I know…
-Should be more memorable. [Judge Lake] So, Mr. Williams,
back in the day, like, -when this picture was taken…
-[Williams] Mmm-hmm.…were you running around
saying “Here’s my
Yeah, that’s how
I addressed her.When everybody…
Anybody asked me about her, I’d say, “This is my daughter.” Was anybody else saying,
“This is my daughter”? It was one situation when I went over
to her house and her and the guy, who’s supposed to be her dad,
was sitting on the porch, and I walked past him
and I went in the house, and the next thing I hear is
blu, blu, blu, blu,
going down the stairs. The guy got mad at her
and pushed her down the stairs. -[audience gasps]
-Because he looked at me… -That’s not true,
-…and saw her. If he hear somebody
push me down the stairs, then why he
didn’t come outside? -Why he up in the house?
-[audience laughs] -[Williams] I ain’t…
I can’t deal with her. -[Williams] Hey.
-If I’m supposed to be
the mother of his child, why he didn’t
come outside… -[Williams] Hey.
-…if he heard
me falling down the stairs. That’s not true. You bounced up fast,
I don’t know. So, how did you lose touch?
I mean, it seems like you pickin’ her up,
you taking her to the birthday parties
with the other kids and… -How did you lose touch?
-[Winn] He should’ve taken
her to the… [Williams] I lost touch
’cause they moved and then the last…
I heard Quinisha, she was stayin’
in Louisiana and I was just
Well, um, social media, and I saw one of
her family members, and I was just going on
each one of them, until I saw,
there was a post on it that said “Cali reppin’ bebe” and I punched on it
and it was Quinisha, and that’s when
I reached out to her… [audience] Aw! …and I asked her to ask
a family member who I am, -and they told her.
-Did you do that? Yes, I did,
and then I asked about, like, if he could
be my father and a family member
was, like, “Yeah, possibly.” [audience gasps] Quinisha, what were
the years like before you reconnected
with Mr. Williams? I mean, it was sad
because, like, when
I didn’t want… When she made me mad,
I didn’t have nobody to go to, and then, like,
I have family members that would, you know,
tease me about
not having a dad. Like, “A-ha,
that’s why you
don’t have a dad.” -Really?
-Yeah. -That’s so hurtful.
-Mmm-hmm. And, so, when you
got that message from Mr. Williams, what did you feel,
what were you thinking? It’s… It’s shocking.
Like, ’cause, you know,my mom’s supposed
to have told me.I shouldn’t have
to go though my family.[Williams]I remember
one comment she made to me.She said,
“I knew that man
wasn’t my daddy.” [audience exclaims] -Oh, that other man.
-Mmm-hmm. How did you know that? Because we…
we look nothing alike. Like, um, I don’t…
There’s no connection there. So, Mr. Williams,
can you tell the court, describe for the court
the experiencereconnecting with Quinishaafter 20 years.
What happened?The only thing we talked about
is just getting a DNA test and, you know,
just to make it official. Me and her mom,
we even talking
about going to have one. I don’t why
this sounds foreign
to her right now ’cause we’ve had
this conversation before. [audience gasps] But nothing
never ever happened. Well, why are we
getting a DNA test if nothing happened,
though, man. -[clicks tongue]
-Come on, now, man. Like I said,
he’s not her father. I know he’s
not her father. Well, who is
my daddy, then? -[audience cheers]
-Mama… What? I don’t know. I don’t know. It ain’t Mr…
It ain’t Stanley. -Well, how do you know?
-The other guy. How do you know? -She don’t look
nothing like him.
-[clicks tongue] -Okay.
-Where do you see
the resemblance at? [Winn]Because she
light-skinned.He lighter than her.She look more like me.She’s just
a lighter version.-[Williams]I just always
felt that way.
-Your Honor, we here todayjust to find out
if Stanley is her father so we can put
this all behind. If this is
your daughter, I can’t give you
the 35 years back. We just could
go from here. -That’s right.
-[woman] Yes, yes. And I see you
now, Mom, I see the emotion
in your eyes. What are you feeling now
in this moment? What are you feeling? I’m just upset. I’m hurt that it’s taken
so long, you know? It’s my fault that I did this
to my daughter, not knowing
who’s her father. It’s not that hard
to just be honest. You can spend all day
condemning Mr. Williams and everything he did
and didn’t do and, you know, I knew this
and that’s why I asked you what was it, -what were you
-I’m not… You know, Your Honor,
I’m not mad at Mr. Williams ’cause he did this. He just, like, you know,
he just took so long to do it. We took so long
to do it. -We should have
been did this.
-We owe this
to our daughter. -[audience applauding]
-If this is his daughter. And, basically,
I wanna know, too. You know,
it would take
a relief off me knowing that Mr. Williams
might be her father. Because the truth is when you say…
When she says
who is your father, when you say you don’t know,
that really is the truth. Yeah, I’m not gonna lie
to my daughter. I don’t know. And do you understand
now, Miss Mayberry? Your mother
really doesn’t know, and even though she may say,
“It’s not Mr. Williams,” the truth is she doesn’t know. Yeah, I get that. I totally understand where
she coming from with that. [Judge Lake]
So, we’re here now. Are you hoping today,
Miss Mayberry, that Mr. Williams is, in fact,
your biological father? Do you believe he is? What do you feel? Well, I’m hoping, ’cause, like,
I’m the only child. That mean I will
have siblings and whatnot. My kids will have
another grandparent. Can you look
at your mom and tell her
what you really feel? Well, Mama… I feel like there’s always been
a piece missing. Like, I always
had issues -’cause I wanted
brothers and sisters.
-I know. Take your time.
Just be honest. [audience] Aw. Don’t cry.
We’ll all get
through this. Okay? I know. [whispers] It’s okay. [Judge Lake] Can you finish
what you wanted to say? I don’t know.
I just want to
find out the truth. I don’t wanna keep… dragging it along. I just wanna know. For me
and for my kids. And I have those
results for you. Jerome, may I have
the envelope, please? These results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics and they read as follows. In the case ofMayberry/Williams v. Winn…When it comes to Quinisha Mayberry it had been determined
by this Court… Mr. Williams… you… are not the father. I’m very sorry. [Mayberry sobs and sniffles] I’m sorry I could not give you
the closure you needed. Miss Winn, can you… remember, identify, think about any other person
you may have been
dating at that time? It is the man that signed
her birth certificate. And, so, Quinisha,
well, I guess, you know, sometimes
we just have to find, like I always say,
the magic in the mess. Like, we hear
the magic and… And the miracle of it is that his name’s
on your birth certificate
and you know where he is. Mmm, no,
I don’t know
where he is, and I prefer
to keep it that way. Well, listen, I know you’ve been
though so much and this particular hearing was to get you
a level of closure that I hope
you understand was necessary, and, Mom, if there is another person
besides this man
on her birth certificate, instead of
working her up to where she goes
through this whole thing and tracks him down
and he’s not the father. If there’s more
than one possibility, so be it. Let’s just lay it
on the line, and I hope
you get the answers and the closure
you deserve, okay? Thank you, Your Honor. Absolutely, honey. I wish you
the very best. Court is adjourned. [audience applauds]